We recently welcomed our 2nd child into the world. Mom, baby, and big brother are doing well.
Here are a few obligatory baby photos, and for those interested, a cost breakdown and overview of a Taiwan birth and luxury postpartum experience.
Introducing…
First things first, let me introduce to you young Jaiden, aka 聿平, born August 6th at 8:30 pm in Taipei, Taiwan, weighing 2960 grams.
Attempting to escape hand first, he is perfectly healthy except for some bruising on his hand. He even has the correct number of digits.
For months big brother has talked of nothing besides the baby and Pokemon, so he was very excited to finally meet. (No battles… yet.)
Pandemic friendly meet and greet
Too much excitement
The Experience
We are in the early part of a 3-stage childbirth experience.
Hospital
Winnie woke me ~4 am to report kid #2 planned to arrive a few weeks early. A few hours later I brought Jr to school and then joined her at the hospital.
Around 8 pm they rolled her into the operating room for an emergency C-section – the baby had his hand/arm stuck in the exit door and needed some manual assistance. Half an hour later I was presented with our new family expansion pack.
Normally we would stay 3 nights in the hospital, but with the operation that was extended to 5. The hospital room was large with an extra bed and small sofa, so Jr and I were also able to spend the night. It was pleasant as far as hospitals go.
I changed my first diaper in several years, which of course involved a fire hose of filtered milk around the room. The nursing staff politely informed me that they were happy to perform all diaper duties from there on out.
Postpartum center
On day 6 we moved into a postpartum center – a luxury baby hotel if you will. These have a plethora of doctors and nurses on staff 24 hours a day who take care of Momma’s every whim and need. It’s been a week and I still haven’t changed a 2nd diaper.
The room is quite nice (4-5 star hotel-ish) with a nice view and comfortable furnishings.
Baby hotel
In total we will be here 20 nights – I spend most of the day here for moral support, Jr comes by for a couple hours in the afternoon, and during the evenings the nurses roll the kid in for feeding time.
Between feedings the baby can sleep in the baby center and Momma can keep an eye on him via 24/7 webcam. We elect to have him in the room with us most of the time, but it is nice to have the team support. Mom definitely naps easier knowing somebody is always watching him.
bedtime stories for everyone
Home Help
When the 3 weeks is up we will return to the comforts of home. For 20 more days a kindly grandmotherly woman will join us daily from 9 am to 6 pm to help care for the baby, assist mom, cook meals, clean, etc… We met with her a few months ago based on the recommendation of several friends and she was a wealth of knowledge and experience.
This will be a nice transition back to normal home life, with some expert guidance to ease the way.
Cost $$$
The healthcare system in Taiwan is incredibly efficient and well run – we paid our complete and final bill as we checked out of the hospital.
Total cost: 142,480 TWD ($4,842 USD.) With a natural birth it would have been $1,700-$2,000 lower.
(About $20,000 discount to the US? Data.)
This is all inclusive – 5 nights of private hospital room, emergency C-section, twice daily doctor visits, all nursing staff and support, all meals, and pediatric care. It would have been higher (not sure how much) without Taiwan health insurance (5 years ago the bill was reduced by ~$750 thanks to insurance, see Birthing Babies for Fun and Profit.)
Hospital Bill
For 20 nights in the postpartum center we paid 178,000 TWD (~$6,050 USD.) Or about $300/night.
This is also all-inclusive (meals, diapers, baby formula, pediatric care) and also includes some “perks” like a baby photo session.
For home care, we will pay 53,000 TWD ($1,800 USD) or ~$90/day.
In summary, total cost of the 45-day 3-stage childbirth experience is $12,692.
(Offsetting this cost: an extra $500 in CARES Act stimulus and $2,000 in additional child tax credit.)
(Alas, all of these bills had to be paid in cash – no credit card rewards points! [Sad face.] Fortunately we knew the bills were coming, and I started stockpiling cash for this purpose as soon as the pandemic began. This saved us about 3% over the now lower currency exchange rate – ~$400!)
Summary
After several tries (and almost giving up) we have become parents for the 2nd time.
Everybody is doing well, and over the next month or so we will slowly transition back to normal life. The new normal, that is.
Hopefully family will be able to visit shortly – our earliest visit to the US isn’t likely to be until 2022. Until then… stay safe.
More photos (just because)
Welcome
Baby’s 1st Hong Bao
Milk Coma
Congratulations and welcome, Jaiden! So interesting to learn about the care for mom, little, and family during and after birth; thanks for sharing.
Congratulations! A welcomed and wonderful addition to the GCC family. Too bad about the lack of credit card points – that could have funded your next family vacation!
Congratulations guys! Such a beautiful family. That birth experience sounds awesome and cheap. My experience in Portland OR was wonderful as well but as US insurance goes, you’re outta there in 3 days lol.
Congratulations! What a sign of hope, to bring a baby in the world.
That baby hotel sounds wonderful. I gave birth for the first time in Berlin, Germany. No complaints about the cost- covered totally by insurance. A midwife visited me at home almost daily for ten days afterward, too. What about killed me was the doting grandparents, who arrived a week after the birth, stayed with us for three weeks in our 800 sq ft apt., and insisted on being escorted to all the tourist sites because they had never been to Europe before. I had a grade three tear and missed ‘pampering’, although of course it was nice to have family there. I guess I was relatively young and easy-going back then!
Congratulations Jeremy and Winnie!!!
My wife and I are about to welcome our second as well, also in Taiwan. A couple of questions from your post:
1. If you got the CARES check already, do you still get $500 for the new addition and if so is it on your tax return and is the $500 credit refundable or not?
2. Once you get the Jaiden’s US passport at AIT, do you still need to send an application to the SSA in Manila to get an SSN for him, whichever is necessary for the child tax credit, child care credit and I’m assuming the CARES credit?
Good luck with new arrival and also the paperwork! (It also sounds like you got a good deal on the hospital and postpartum center – we paid about 20% more.)
CARES Act stuff is based on your 2020 income tax return, which will have 2 kids on it. The advanced estimated payments were based on 2018 or 2019 tax returns. All CARES Act credits are refundable.
I did all the SSN stuff with Kid #1 (also born in Taiwan) but I have forgotten what was all involved – I think just applied for SSN online but will need to do some research in the next couple of weeks. I think also need SSN before applying for passport, but also… fuzzy memory.
Congrats on the new addition. Lovely snaps and glad to hear that all are healthy.
BTW, you don’t need SSN to get passport for those youngin’s born overseas. We got our daughter’s passport last year in Colombia and before we were able to get the SSN.
We did the same thing as you all. Had the kiddo in Cali in a 4/5 star hotel like hospital, everything in English/Spanish, and tons of help, all for a fraction of the cost in the US. If folks can swing it, totally recommend looking for these options for big life/health care events. There are many, often much better options out there than health care services offered in the States.
Congratulations to all three of you .
Congrats to you and Winnie on the successful expansion project. We are doing the doting grandparent thing with our first grand child born a week ago. We forget how tiny they were. In NJ, son was able to check in to hospital but could not leave until mom and baby – that is if he wanted to return after leaving. Other than that and masks, Covid didn’t change much.
So smol! (See: Fun comparison of baby vs 5 year old.)
Congratulations! Beautiful baby and beautiful family. Wishing you all years of love and joy.
Congrats to your family! Glad all are well and that Taiwan has such seemingly rational health care system. Thanks for sharing, and all the best in the coming at-home transition.
Thanks so much, JL
When we had our first baby the two local hospitals were having a price war and we chose the one that guaranteed the entire cost would be less than one thousand dollars! It was a great deal and all went well. On our third baby, I stalled mom too long and we had the baby in the hospital waiting room before the doctor arrived, just me and a nurse. The doctor, a friend, said that since he got there too late he would not charge us anything!
Ha, nice! The doc should have paid you! ;)
Wonderful! Congratulations guys! What a blessing.
I was thinking that having two is a great hedge just in case the pandemic goes on for another decade. The kids can always play with each other!
Are you guys still planning on coming back to the U.S.?
Sam
Thanks Sam. We always thought 2 was a nice number for nomadism as they always have a built-in social network.
Probably back in the US, but at least 3-4 years out.
Thank you for sharing your joyous moment with us. So glad that everyone is healthy.
The costs you paid given the level of services delivered is amazing in comparison to the US system. I think the only logical conclusion for the US healthcare system being as costly and inefficient is that is exactly how all the players of the healthcare game in the US wish it to be. It certainly isn’t because we do not have the resources or knowledge to do better.
Thanks again for sharing!
Congratulations to all family members and best wishes!!
Thanks!
Congratulations! I’m a little amazed that you’ve approached even the birth of your second child from the FIRE mindset. I’d be hard-pressed not to just turn that off for a couple weeks and soak in the experience. ;)
Thank you for sharing the details! It’s strange to realize how many luxury Taipei birth & postpartum experiences we could cover with our HSA and yet we still max that thing out every year, just in case we have to throw wads of money at the crazy US system.
I’m weird like that.
We also plan a bit for moving back to the US, what we save now essentially gets thrown into the savings pile for future US expenses.
Congratulations! Such a smart way to use your FIRE $, wish I could have had my kids in Taiwan.
Congrats! These birthing centres are very popular in Taiwan, I remember some of my cousins using them for their kids.
I think 20 babies currently in this baby hotel. Super popular.
I’m not surprised at all that your care was excellent and reasonably priced. I also live in Taipei and have made use of the medical care lately. It’s super-professional and the price is right with National Health Insurance. No boutique-type care for me, although I may indulge myself sometime to get a complete physical at one of the nicer hospitals. Best wishes for continued health of the new baby!–Dan V–American expat
Thanks Dan! We also enjoy the spa like experience for annual exams.
Congratulations to the entire family. Enjoy your new, little peanut.
Congrats on the new bundle of joy! Looks adorable, and glad to hear everyone is doing well!
Congratulations! I’m glad everything turned out well. That postpartum situation sounds amazing.
Thank God the kids take after their Mom! :)
True, much thanks for that.
Funny thing – all of our Asian friends/family think the kids look 100% like me and nothing like Mom. For our Western friends/family, the opposite.
Congratulations!!!! Your new baby boy is gorgeous. And his older brother is a treasure.
Thanks so much!
Woo hoo! Everyone looks so happy and beautiful. Congratulations to all. What a wonderful birthing experience. Peace, joy, and love to you all.
Much thanks, Ann!
Congratulations Jeremy and family!
Thank you
What wonderful news and great breakdown of cost. Most of all, what a beautiful family. I love that you’re passing on some knowledge to us, but moreover, some important DNA to the world/mankind. GREAT MOVE!!!
So, it kinda begs the question, does the 4% rule go out the window now? Ultimately we’ll find out. But there’s no better way to spend the money. ;)
>does the 4% rule go out the window now?
4% rule doesn’t have any feelings about us, it just says what worked in the past and gives some budget guidance.
Since IVF and childbirth expenses are 1 time only (per kid) there is no need to plan for 25x this expense. Same with future college costs (although don’t need to save very much when planning 3 decades in advance.)
For the recurring annual expenses of child rearing, we need 25x+ those expenses to keep going. And we do – planned in advance.
Congratulations! What a beautiful family you are! That sounds like a solid value for the level of service and comfort, too. Enjoy your new normal, together!
Thank you, Maria.
Congratulations to both you and Winnie. Both Patricia and I are so happy for you! Oh yeah, the new normal now with two kids! We’re looking forward to meeting Jaiden in the near future!
Thanks Tom! Probably in your neck of the woods in 2022
Congratulations 🎉
I’m so, so happy for y’all 🙂
Thank you!
Congratulations to the whole family! Happy to see a healthy new addition.
And of course, it’s nice of you to gloat about the quality and cost of care you have over there compared to the US. Ha! Seriously though, the difference is incredible.
Good luck with being new parents (again)!
Thank you.
I vote to have the same high quality / low cost healthcare in the US too, but seems like a lot of people prefer the current system.
What happy news! Congratulations to all of you! Stay safe and healthy!
Congratulations! Jaiden has the same birthday as my now 15 year old. Time flies, and they are sooo tiny. If I’d known how posh labor and recovery was in Taiwan, my husband (1/2 Taiwanese) might have convinced me it was the place to be. We were out of the hospital in under 15 hours in by the third kid.
Adorable. Congratulations
Congratulations! Welcome to the world Jaiden!!!
Congratulations to you and Winnie. Jaiden is adorable. Love the family picture. Love and joy to the four of you!
Aww, congratulations guys!! So little and squishy <3 And that baby hotel sounds fantastic! Wish we had those in North Am.
Congrats to the whole family. Sounds like a wonderful way to have a baby. Much different than the 24 hours and out in the US.
Congratulations! Happy for you and your family that three have become four!
Thank you for sharing and congratulations to you and the rest of the family. Welcome to the 2-kid-club club. Maybe we’ll see at the interest meeting for the 2-kids-and-done club!
Congrats!! We welcomed our 2nd into the world a few months ago. It’s amazing how much things change when you go from one child to two!!
Congrats!! Our 3rd was born only 7 days ago. Can’t wait to see what inspiration this new journey takes you guys!
Do you still recommend Personal Capital now that they were sold?
I already started receiving annoying calls from them trying to get me into their paid base. Thoughts?
Sure – same service.
(The annoying calls were a feature before the acquisition – just tell them you aren’t interested and they will stop calling (or block the number, which is what I did.))
Congratulations!
Congratulations! So happy for you and your family!
Congrats to all! Just checking in after things have settled to see how things are so far.
I’ve never heard of childbirth being such a luxury experience. Wow, that post-partum room! Looking forward to more photos and updates.
All good – Mom and baby are home now and it is one big party every 2-3 hours all night long
Congratulations!! This is very exciting news. Thank you for the break down of all the costs. My wife and I are also looking at the costs in Taipei for having a baby. This is quite helpful indeed. I am so glad the baby and mother are healthy. Congratulations once again.
Congratulations. So pleased you got there in the end. Yes never giving up is a good predictor of success one way or the other. Fabulous baby care – what a great start. Especially if you have minimal family support which a lot of us in the post COvid world have to deal with. Great news
Congratulations!!! Such wonderful news. Wishing the four of you plenty of happy moments together and hope that Winnie enjoyed the luxury baby hotel. Sound like a great way to recover but only Taiwan can make it that affordable, right?
Congratulations on the addition to the family. I am really happy for you. Having a history of pregnancy loss and difficulty getting pregnant myself I want everyone who wants to have kids to be able to have the number they wish. It is a hard and isolating journey, and I’m glad you are out on the other end.
Good luck with all of the crap that comes now. It is wonderful that you have the resources in Taiwan you do and at such affordable prices. You definitely made the right decision to have your babies there and not in the US.
Thank you Megan